I talked to Sara about the addition of a "Like Button" to replace the heart for liking a model. She said to get some people together and come up with some ideas for words. We need to use some engineering or CAD related arlance to do this right. I need some assistance as usual. I will send her an email if we can get this thing going so she can follow this.
Come on people, let's gitter done!!!
I agree with you 150%. I have see models downloaded 500 times with 25 likes. Seriously?
I was not aware of that feature. Maybe y'all can integrate that into our profiles...
I think it would be useful. To remember what I liked for one. Maybe a link in the drop down on the profile pic and a link to models liked or favorite.
The latter link being on the actual profile page. Probably would help others to see ones tastes I guess...
Cool thought. How do you see it integrating into your profile? Would it be useful to see others' Liked models if they chose to share that?
The 'like' system with GrabCAD has long been a bone of contention with me. I don't really mind if it's a thumbs up, a heart a smiley face or whatever, the problem is getting people to use it. The only fair way for this to work is to tie it in with the download mechanism, if it's good enough to download then it's good enough to like it too.
I thought the preview was the 'looking glass' into the models quality, although I do accept an auto-like is pretty lame, but if it's the only assured way of getting a like from a 'collector' of models, then so be it. If I was to take a guess of how many likes i have given compared to downloads I think my percentage would be something like 99.8% likes given without me downloading the actual model, maybe a public statistic that shows this would resolve some of the issues with the like system ?
@Martin, same question I had for Ivo, I have for you: If a like is automatically given, then what does that do to what it means to get a like? Right now, someone taking the time to stop and like something is unique and feels kind of awesome in my opinion. If someone was forced to like my work before they were even able to use it, then I wouldn't be as excited about it. How about special messaging encouraging them to like your work if it was helpful, something sent from us right on the site after download?
I do need to agree with Sara with this one Martin about people taking the time to like your model. rather than just auto getting a like through a download...... as some peps do not know what the model will be like until they download it as a render can do a lot for a model but when actually seeing the model in your software sometimes it is not the model you though it would be to the render taking into account the quality of the model its self......
One problem I see if you were to tie the likes in to the downloads is this. I have downloaded several models that I thought were good, judging by renders and the 3D viewer, however, once opened for use in a project of mine, they were terrible. Not worthy of a like at all.
Another problem would be that it would make the distinction between likes and downloads in our profile page meaningless.
On the other hand, I will admit that I have downloaded very good, useable models in a hurry, and have forgot to give them a like for their quality work, so there is something to be said about that as well.
I would agree that the little heart shaped icon for giving likes could use some work, maybe an updated icon that was placed in a different part of the page, such as in-line with the download button?
The 500 download and 10 likes phenomenon, I think, is unavoidable. With 1 million users, 980,000 of those are just logging in to grab there free model and run without giving thought to giving a like. I could be wrong, it's happened once before.
On a side note,I would personally like to see a little symbol that represented the quality of the model, such as an "Engineer Tested & Approved" icon
I would have to agree with you there too...
Recognize (to my shame) I downloaded and did not press "like"(inception - mea culpa).
Motion : where to download a file to show a pop-up "Do you LIKE -Yes - No".
In this way it warns the user that it is good taste to give "LIKE".
Regards to all.
Great idea about a recomendation part within someone model from other GrabCAD users to leave comments on the model it self so others know a little more about it before downloading it :P
This comes back to what recommended with the last bought of copyright/left infringements. I put forward the idea of a rating and a ladder system, earning your way through a ranking systems based on the votes of your peers regarding the quality of the model
I like this idea for sure y'all. It is a start I think to ensuring credit is given where credit is due. For me, I could care less if some one likes my models, except I want to be on the first page of engineers one day. There are enough of we "real" engineers that the system could be tweaked here and there to get it working like the engineers want it to. After all, we are the ones that make this happen. Not trying to sound cocky here, believe me, I am a very humble person. I am humbled by some of the work that I have seen here. And I am very humbled when someone comments on my work and really likes it. Makes me all tingly inside With that said, don't tell the guys I used the word tingly...
I like the tested and approved idea...
Do you think showing how many people recommend this model for download, perhaps in the form of collections like I was discussing with Jonny, would have the same effect as a "Engineer tested and approved" stamp of approval?
Great idea with "Enginner Tested and Approved" icon.
I totally agree with Jonny and I support your proposal.
Think of it more as a favorite/save than a Like. Not sure if anyone else uses this feature, https://grabcad.com/library/mylikes, but I find it useful to keep my all-time favorite models easy to access, which is a bit different than just liking them. As Jonny says, I'd love to hear some engineering or CAD terms that you would normally use
Seems simple to me... change the graphic from a heart, to a gear. GrabCAD's all about the gears of technology. Done & done.
The heart seems to be well antiquated for a website based on the power of engineers the same.
Lets get it changes to a gear!
A compass, as in the compass I used on the drafting board when I first started designing 30 years ago...
Thanks Tommy. I love the gear (as you can tell with all the ways I find to add it to the site, etc.). Right now we use this for settings as it is a common icon for that use. Anything like a gear that points closer to like/favorite in the ENG world?
...it's just an idea to share going forward for this solution
I like the gear idea though...
I have been thinking of a more comprehensive rating system. Having like icons for creativity, modelling and presentation.
We see great creativity that are glossed over because they are not presented or rendered well. On the other hand our 180th iPhone model is presented in a nice render with absolutely no creativity involved. Thumbs up icon also could come with a thumbs down icon as well or are our users not capable of handling criticism?
Nice idea Kamyar, but now there seems to be a big problem (for many) with hitting 1 key, so more keys will only enlarge the problem..
Only a small percentage of the 1 milion member understands what we are doing..
Thumb down OK, but than there needs to be a bar to fill in so you need to explain why the dislike...(otherwise it becomes a playground like facebook...we have a lot of youngsters amongst us)
@Sara Sigel. Here is an idea.
I agree with Martin, for each download, should fit like automatically, and above all make it compulsory mathematics post whatever they may be, only the images, are not acceptable for me ...
You know, that is an idea. You have to like the model to download it. If you end up not liking the model, you can always go back and unlike it.
How about a hangman that cuts off their internet permanently? Just kidding just kidding...
If a like is automatically given, then what does that do to what it means to get a like? Right now, someone taking the time to stop and like something is unique and feels kind of awesome in my opinion. If someone was forced to like my work before they were even able to use it, then I wouldn't be as excited about it. How about special messaging encouraging them to like your work if it was helpful, something sent from us right on the site after download?
Along with Pat's idea of a "Engineer Tested & Approved" Badge for the model in question. You know, that is an idea.
Yep!! Totally agree on this one...(but I do not think it will work though, everybody knows that it takes more steps to download a model than to like it..Agree with me?? So no matter what name, how big and colorful they make the button...There are vast amounts of "members" who are only here to "freeload" models and don't even have the courtesy to "thanks" us for our "blood, sweat and tears" we put into a model...
Perhaps a drastic change is needed (as the GC team promised us in the past, because this is not the first time this issue comes up.. remember my model: grabcad.com/library/broken-like-button.
Credits for downloads?? Notification of the down loaders?? I don't know but there has to be something done...now CrabCad is a free haven for freeloaders (and idiots and thief's for that matter(still see a lot of work from "the other 3D sites uploaded here as own work, and Yes, "we like" it...see all the notifications...great, super, wonderfull etc) How stupid are "we"?
This was also on of the issues GC was about to tackle, yes they invented the report button, but does this help??
I think the GrabCad team needs to do what they promised us...work on makin' this the best 3d site in the world, perhaps they are working on it as we speak and in a little while they come up with countermeasures against "the riff raff"......lets hope so...
Givem hell Hans...
We have all of these things on our to-do list. We already added the download limit and a few of the smaller items on the list. Keep in mind that for many this is a place to download CAD models and we have this free CAD Library for them to use. I don't consider people who use our site for some but not all aspects a freeloader.
When someone violates our Terms, they are reported and things move forward there. I think the Report button is a big step in the right direction and I try to make it work as well as I can for every member that uses it. Again, let's save this for another topic and think about ways to acknowledge great work with a Like or Favorite icon or word that speaks in the great and technical ENG language.
We are returning to the problem that showed Verislav Mudrak ... are 2 different things, Hans, shoot files and spacciarli not vote for their own and what you scaricato.Fatta specifying that each of us shares a project, and you want to make it public and share chiuque you can download it, and is accepted by us, we are talking about proper recognition, the viewer now works well and the quality of the model already seen, so if I download it is right that votes ... in my humble opinion ...
We need some terms here guys and gals...
Lets get back on topic and we will start a gripe question about the above issues...
When Sara says "idea for words" , is this just one word to replace the like icon? Also, if it's in English, will non-English speaking users understand it?
i AM THINKING A TRANSLATER BUILT IN AS WELL. wOULD HELP SOME OF THOSE THAT DON'T SPEAK BUT THEIR NATIVE TONGUE IN NAVIGATING THROUGHT THE SITE.
iF NOT A WORD, THEN SOMETHING FROM THE ENGINEERING WORLD...
This is a user experience/user interface concept that we always keep in mind. When to use text and when to use icons. Something from the engineering world is on the right track for sure.
Just had an idea,
what if when you opened a page there was a red banner above the renderings that said "RENDERINGS ONLY" , I personally would hate to have a big red flag above any of my images stating "RENDERINGS ONLY". Nothing distasteful, just a simple Bright red box that said something to that effect. Fellow grabcad users could click on an icon similar to the "report" button that flagged the model of renderings only.
I still can't think of anything that would be any better or more effective than the heart, simply because it is recognized by so many languages as the symbol for like. A gear icon to me would make me think it's a settings of some sort if I didn't know any better.
While I am against linking likes with downloads, I will concede that it is not out of the question entirely, but a 1:1 ratio would put thing out of balance. I'd 10 downloads =1 like, but then it all just gets complicated.
And if the likes and linking merge, I am going to upload individual nuts and bolts, washers, gears, batteries, lights, wires, etc. Things that take me 5 minutes to model so I can crank out tons. I will be in the number one spot in 6 months time I AM JUST JOKING!!! but some people may have this view
what about a star system. 1 star = 1 point, 2 stars = 3 points, 3 stars = 5 points (or whatever). You could then use that type of system to weed out bad models in searches, as in "SEARCH = 3STARS". Or when you get 20 3 star ratings, your model gets a badge ( a simple plain-jane badge). 50 3 star ratings, your model get's an "ENGINEER APPROVED" badge, 100 3 star ratings you get the best badge (whatever that may be)
I figure if I come up with enough ideas to replace the like button, one has GOT to catch on :P
Why not something a bit more simplistic. If a member downloads a file why not have the server "nag" or ask the the downloader if they found the model useful and "Like" or "Not What I Needed" or "Junk" (not a model or better description...)
My 2 Cents
@Sara I already use the my likes feature with GC. I download very little from GC, i see GrabCAD as a library, if I need a model then hopefully it's already in MyLikes or it's just a search away. But, and add to favourites button would still have a place in my opinion, for example i wouldn't 'like' an M16 nut with beveled edges, however I would add it to my favourites, then I know it's there when and if needed, then if downloaded, an automatic like to the modeller would be good as in Ivo's suggestion.
Great point. What do you think about having a collection to refer to which I think would be easier to search? Like a collection of saved cars, a collection of small parts including nuts, a collection of 3D printable models, etc. Pretty much something for a category set an created by you.
I think that's a great idea Sara. It would be handy to have the 'Following' section have a sub list for the challenge entries that you are following - I often forget to remove them form the list after the challenge has been completed.
So how do you propose we stop the freeloaders then?
Hans De Ridder just PM'd me stating this. I hate it too. There are several people on here that download the models and then repost them as theirs.
I think this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed. Once GrabCAD has gotten past the trying to promote their WorkBench, maybe there will be time to assist we engineers with a couple of issues that we have...
You do have a point. Lets get back to engineering terms. We can always start a plunder and pillage the freeloaders question...
Hans explained it quite well below. But we are getting off topic here...
The best way to deal with this is letting me know about it. It's clear that this is not okay in our Terms so it's just a matter of finding those accounts and removing them. You guys are really great about getting them to me and I do my best to get to those reports and deal with them as fast as I can.
There will always be freeloaders no matter what or where you are. The question is how we, as a community, react to them. This seems like a separate issue from Likes though - I'm not sure which comment this is in response to so I'm not sure how it connects to the original topic. Was it based on not linking downloads and likes?
As the day progresses more engineers and designers will be chiming in I am sure. I sent PM's to most of those that are very active here on GrabCAD and of course the top dogs...
You do have a point Sara. Lets get back to engineering terms. We can always start a plunder and pillage the freeloaders question...
@ JP Johnston For this problem GrabCad can add a COMPARISON tool to know if the model is already in the GC library or not. For example, it can compare the succession of the modeling features, the centre of the geometry and other properties....!!!
I don't know if it can works but this is what I got!!
OK OK OK, we need to get back on topic here people...
What if you simply made the heart icon in color, looks like it's grayed out, or inactive, not very bold and catchy. Or made it a red thumbs up icon instead.
Hey, I'm trying here :)
I like the heart button but as it is relates to every day network life on a social basis, but as a engineering community we are meant to be different and stand out from the crown so maybe a change is good. About getting a like automatically if your model is downloaded I have to disagree with this. People sometimes download models from GRABCAD based on there render of the model they are think they are downloading but sometimes get very disappointed as it is not the model they though. Hence the reason an auto like would be bad.... It is very easy to be great at rendering and with the right tools people can make the most beautiful render of a very bad model due to the quality of the model. It would be a great idea to have a comments section on each models page so that when others do download the model can leave a comment on the quality for others to read before they decide to download. This to will also help the modeller develop there skills over time when other members of the community are leaving comments on there models. As long as this feature does not get abused and is for constructive criticism only I think this would be another great addition to helping each other out within the community. After all we that is what life is all about helping one and other achieve the goals we have set upon our self to better our ability and knowledge day by day.... Life is all about education and GrabCAD has giving us the platform to educate others and be educated out self's......
This is only my opinion, I think this is going the Facebook way. I really hope it doesn't. I Facebook to be social. I am a GrabCad'r because I am an engineer first...
Well i might be missing something here, I thought the like button was a toggle button. So if you get an automatic like from the download, and the end user decides the model is a bag of sh!t then all he has to do is toggle the heart back to off, or whatever replaces it ?
Spencer, good point...
I agree with Martin, for each download, should fit like automatically, and above all make it compulsory mathematics post whatever they may be, only the images, are not acceptable for me
I think you may be on to something there bro engineer...
what if you were to give incentive to handing out likes. I'm not talking about giving you points for giving likes, otherwise people would spend their 50 likes a day on junk models. Maybe show a "likes given" counter in your profile page. You could go to someones page and say" WHAT this guy has 100 models and has only given out 21 likes?!" I know I wouldn't want a super low like count.
I must be doing something wrong though, because I've only maxed out my likes (used all 50 in 24 hours) ONCE, and that was because I was away for a bit and got bored and went through 3000 models :) 50 likes is a lot for a 24 hour period IMHO
OK, my renderings are done, time to get back to work :)
I will appreciate if at one go on a particular engineer, the models liked and not yet liked by me is displayed. This will surely save time. Time is money. I will not have to go to the individual model to see this status.
Dear all. I don't think so important that like button change from heart to thumb or anything else, It is a pleasure for me to hit the like button for a nice work, even if I don't need to download it, It's for me the way to tell to the author I appreciate what he does. Of course the most downloaded models should be the most liked, if dowloaders were a bit grateful for the work made by others.
Instead, what bothers me more is to see sometimes very nices renderings of objects (cars mainly) but no 3D file with the image. I thing GRABCAD could ask for uploading real models , not images only.
Anyway, this is a nice and useful website, and I am fully grateful for the members. Please excuse my poor English , especialy at this moment, after a long day working.
One of the issues with this is that some of my work I can upload the image but not the 3d model due to NDA's. A lot of my work I can not upload at all. You know what I mean?
Jonny has great idea - change the Heart like button to something different.
For my opinion it is not good if you change the sign to text (you can have some problems with multilanguage text) - the icon is much easy.
I think that "thumbs up" is great idea (you can find it on every social networks), but GrabCAD is web space for Engineers - collaboration web space.
And which sign is best for engineers? - I think that you know this answer :) ...and you know, that I do not think about money :)
I like that idea too...