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CyDesign Challenges you to create surface CAD model for Group B rally car.
The legendary Group B Rally cars no longer race, but the spirit of providing the quickest, most powerful
and sophisticated land going “passenger” vehicles lives today. Read the Wikipedia link for a short history of Group B rally cars and Auto Evolution for a small collection of Group B rally cars from the recent past.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B
http://www.autoevolution.com/news-g-image/group-b-rally-cars-the-killer-b-s/3958.html
CyDesign Labs is building a detailed physics based modeling and simulation environment and wants to
have a great looking car to use in this simulated environment. CyDesign Labs is in need of detailed CAD
surface model of what a Group B Rally car would look like today, using modern design and styling
techniques. The challenge, though, is that the final design must not replicate existing, trademark and
copyright protected automobiles or automobile shapes produced today. The only requirement of the
design, beyond the specs, is that the CyDesign logo (see below), must be integrated into the paint
scheme/graphics on the Group B Rally car. Subsequent sponsor logos are not required; trademark and copyright protected graphics are not permitted.
Given the CyDesign logo, the Group B Rally Car history, images and desired specs (see below), can you produce a detailed surface model? If so, cash is in your skills. No internal surfaces or components are
required- only external surfaces need to be modeled and then rendered.
CyDesign Labs logo assets are available under "Download Specification" button below.
Must be appropriate for a 1982 - 1984 Group B rally car, but using 2012 styling cues.
Does not need to comply with all Group B rules.
Can be varied parametrically to accommodate a range of:
- Wheel-bases (2000-2700 mm)
- Front and rear track widths (1400-1600 mm)
- Ground clearances (150-300 mm)
Accommodates a family of wheels and tires combinations
- Smooth road
- Off-road (a variety of sizes)
- Snow ready (studded or cleated)
Wheel arches large enough for wheel motion to be visible during simulation.
Could be front, rear, or mid-engined, or provide separate model for each type
Optional aerodynamic kit(s) are permissible.
The 3D model must have the body and wheels as separate entities.
Integrate the CyDesign Labs logo into the paint scheme/graphics for the rally car.
The car visualized must not replicate existing or previously produced, recognizable, automobiles or automobile shapes which are trademark and/or copyright protected by their respective owners.
Models can be done in any CAD software, but must be exportable to the collada format. Entries without associated collada (dae) files will not be considered.
The specifications for the visualization must be followed as closely as possible:
- max ~150,000 vertices
- 1 color map, max 1024x1024, preferred over flat color shading
- 1 bump map, max 1024x1024, surface details
- Geometry split up by component function and/or material
- Mesh hierarchy flat with one root node and many children for each submesh
- Pivot positions should at the center of volume for each sub mesh
- Mesh size should be at 1:1 scale
- All surfaces should be double-sided to facilitate real-time mesh slicing
- Exportable to the collada format (dae).
- Submesh volumes should be preserved, i.e. an assembly with a shaft partially embedded should contain the entire shaft not just the visible portion.
The 3D CAD models only require external surfaces modeled and rendered; no internal surfaces/components needed/required.
Mono-chromatic coloring with minimal shading required; do not need complex, multi-light source shading.
3D CAD models require one axis of rotation.
The submissions will be judged on realism, creativity and composition, use of CyDesign logo.
The competition is open to everyone; public entries only.
One engineer can submit several entries, but no more than one will win a prize.
Tag your rendering with “CyDesign Rally Car Challenge” when uploading it to GrabCAD to make it easier to find.
Only models uploaded to GrabCAD library will participate in the competition.
Only models uploaded through this challenge page here will participate in the competition.
The competition ends 10/29/12.
The contest sponsor has the right to use the winning entry for marketing purposes and becomes owner of the winning design.
$3,000 cash + CyDesign T shirt
$1,000 cash + CyDesign T shirt
$500 cash + CyDesign T shirt
CyDesign Labs T-Shirts
Submissions will be judged upon timeliness of submittal, accuracy of 3D models relative
to picture(s)/diagrams/images provided and file size of final CAD file (smaller is better).
The judges will be comprised of CyDesign and GrabCAD staff.
CyDesign Labs is developing a physics-based modeling system that will let engineers quickly assess design options and continuously test against requirements during the early design phase. Should the vehicle have conventional or hybrid drive? How will thermal loads affect an implanted medical device?
Providing answers to these questions early in the design results in a more robust and reliable system.
CyDesign Studio, the flagship product, is a the only model-based design optimization platform with
integrated requirements management that enables organizations to design complex systems with better,
faster results.
David HinzHave an awesome idea for this competition? Want to win cool prizes? Sign-up now to upload your entries.
If you don't receive the email within an hour (and you've checked your Spam folder), email us as confirmation@grabcad.com.
136 comments
angel over 11 years ago
what is dae format? tell me more about the mesh thing?
Tomas over 11 years ago
Interesting challenge! :) Need to participate :)
CCG over 11 years ago
can we submit a design that is already in my personal library??? i think it would be a good thing to be abble to participate with a older design of mine
Sönke Dierks over 11 years ago
i know how much time i took to model my entry for the ssc supercar challenge...so, hopefully i find enough sparetime to participate in this competition...whats distracting me is that the group b was canceled some time ago (too much power and accidents which makes it legendary and one of the most dangererous rally category ever)...should it be 80s styling like the audi quadro/lancia stratos since it all took place in this era? or are we completely free with the design? next concern is that the group b was based on production car (min 200 produced cars were mandatory) and tuned for racing. does that mean we´ll have to take a production-car and modify it untill its ready?
Farzin Raafat over 11 years ago
rules:Must be appropriate for a 1982 - 1984 Group B rally car, but using 2012 styling cues.
does it mean we must choose an 80s car like audi or lancia,then we design based on its platform?
or we are free to design a completely new body.just with correct dimensions?
Frederik Vollbrecht over 11 years ago
Audi S1 rules :)
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Angel (and others) : see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COLLADA
Tomas: Thanks! We are excited to see participation from the GrabCAD community.
Ghioca: Sure, as long as it conforms to the competition spirit, requirements and rules.
Sonke, farzin (and others): 1982 - 1984 Group B rally cars look/feel applied to 2012 body styles is what we are looking for in the final designs. We are excited to see the creativity from the GrabCAD community.
teigan over 11 years ago
real life rally cars are built around a stock production car. this gives a starting point for the stylists. since your task is purely hypothetical, you're going to end up with a bunch of amorphous blobs from designers who have no clue about mechanical realities, and what makes a car a car. it may be better to specify that the surface model must be based on any 2012 car, although we are free to add on to it and cut a few holes as needed.
Tomas over 11 years ago
hmmm, I can choose any car from 1982 - 1984 Group B rally cars list? I want to start modeling.
krzymanski yann over 11 years ago
Lordly challenge !
David Hinz over 11 years ago
teigan, Tomas, krzymanski and others,
You can use the Group B Raly cars as your starting point or use a current car as your starting point. Given the specs above, we are looking for the exceptional creativity of the GrabCAD community to deliver some superb rally car designs that incorporate the CyDesign logos.
Can't wait to see the entries!
Romano Gaspari over 11 years ago
solidworks export 3dxml file. is it good enough?
David Hinz over 11 years ago
hi Romano,
unfortunately, we need to be very specific in the output file type for the purposes of this challenge. Entries must be exportable to the collada format. Entries without associated collada (dae) files will not be considered.
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Hi Reza-1
Very impresssed with the effort and images, but make sure it is can survive the rigors of a rally car course :0) Check out many of the Rally Car videos per the links above or on the web.
Also, please be sure to incorporate the CyDesign logos into the paint scheme/graphics for the body. The logos are in the file when you click on the "download specification" button above.
Thanks,
David
Romano Gaspari over 11 years ago
COLLADA defines an open standard XML schema for exchanging digital assets among various graphics software applications that might otherwise store their assets in incompatible file formats. COLLADA documents that describe digital assets are XML files, usually identified with a .dae (digital asset exchange) filename extension. could anyone tell me how to convert 3dxml into dae format?
WenHua Zhang over 11 years ago
Do we have to have the CAD with a .dae file? Or we can upload CAD file which CAN BE converted into .dae?
Romano Gaspari over 11 years ago
sketch up could do this job... Can anyone check if this cad save as .dae?
teigan over 11 years ago
collada isn't as open as it pretends to be. even if you have a native exporter in your CAD application, the exporter won't run unless you have very specific video cards. the software is written very lazily and uses APIs assuming you have the hardware. so to make a long story short, most of us won't be able to output collada files. if anyone coincidentally happens to have the correct hardware combination to allow collada export from solidworks, then it would be much appreciated if they could open and export other people's files for them.
Derek Cheng over 11 years ago
If you're looking for more inspiration, check out our pinterest board http://pinterest.com/cydesignlabs/rally-car-concepts/
stephane heyberger over 11 years ago
so much nice contest theme.. will think about it!
mohamad sadegh samakoush over 11 years ago
i need more time for design
Schalk over 11 years ago
"Models can be done in any CAD software, but must be exportable to the collada format. Entries without associated collada (dae) files will not be considered." - How will we know this?
And I also don't understand anything about the point just below that... If I design in SolidWorks, how does this relate?
Luis Cordoba over 11 years ago
Great contest!!! I'm in :)
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Hi all,
A few more items per the questions below.
Collada info can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COLLADA
https://collada.org/mediawiki/index.php/COLLADA_FAQ#Is_COLLADA_Open_Source.3F
See the list of applications which generate Collada outputs, and there are likely others.
Also, be sure submitted cars will have enough tire clearance and the right suspension to bounce on the bumpy roads found in WRC rallys!
And be sure to include the CyDesign logos.
Keep the questions, comments and entries coming.
David
Adam Bucko over 11 years ago
Hi,
Is it possible to participate in a team of two?
Adam
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Team entries are welcome. In case of team win, prize money will be transferred to team leader who is solely responsible for splitting it among team members.
Timo over 11 years ago
Can be varied parametrically to accommodate a range of:
- Wheel-bases (2000-2700 mm)
- Front and rear track widths (1400-1600 mm)
- Ground clearances (150-300 mm)
<-- does this mean entries with dumb geometry (like Rhino, Icem or Alias) are not allowed?
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Vulnet - nice design, nice to see the incorporation of the CyDesign logos.
teddy - nice artistry, but too many Bugatti design cues (colors, door shape) and need to incorporate the CyDesign logos into the car graphics (vs. embedded in the ground plate).
Keep the entries coming, they look great.
Thanks!
Negrievski Nenad over 11 years ago
David,
Can i submit a sketch of the concept first?
That way i can easily make changes if you have any suggestions.
And after that i would make the 3d model.
Thanks
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Hi Nenand and others,
You can always submit early concepts from any CAD package to get feedback and input. I have attempting to respond in less than 24 hours on any model submitted.
Vulnet over 11 years ago
Hi David, thank you!
I have a few question about the Collada file and the specifics of it:
1. The meshes into it must be a unique body mesh with the components only splitted or it has to be a group of its?
I uploaded a .dae with a unique body mesh with parts splitted and another mesh for the wheels, is it right?
2. The CyDesign logos were lost in the body of the Collada file, is it a problem?
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Vulnet,
1. Yes, submit as your have for the dae files.
2. How are you loosing the graphics, are you losing the texture or is it not mapped? How are you viewing it?
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
@David - i will change the doors, the color and the front grill to neutral. The Logo is on the Rear-Wing. Thx for the "nice artistry".
Vulnet over 11 years ago
i'm losing the textures...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vulnet/8096888766/in/photostream/lightbox/
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
1. updated :-)
Tomas over 11 years ago
Vulnet, I think you can't save map in .dae format.
David Hinz over 11 years ago
teddy,
appreciate the update, but your .dae has too many vertices; we have requested only 150k vertices, your .dae file has 873k vertices, which is ~4x more than we were planning to support.
David Hinz over 11 years ago
All,
The entries so far look really nice.
One thing to consider for rally cars is making sure designs have enough suspensions travel. Based upon a quick analysis from the CyDesign Mechanical Engineers, it should be expected that the modeled Rally car allow enough wheel well clearance for 6 inches to 8 inches of suspension travel.
see these photos of rally cars in action:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/motor-sports/539688-wrc-rally-sweden-images.html
http://sportscarforums.com/f10/mitsubishi-racing-lancer-first-official-photos-27114.html
http://homepage.virgin.net/shalco.com/seat_build.htm
Vulnet over 11 years ago
Yes Tomas, i can't do it...
teigan over 11 years ago
i am willing to participate, if someone will export the collada for me, from a solidworks file. the contest timeframe is unusually short, and i don't to be wasting days on installing software.
Vulnet over 11 years ago
teigan,
if you give me a *.obj or a *.3ds file, i can do it for you.
Vulnet over 11 years ago
David,
How many inches for the wheels?
Actually my rims are 20
Timo over 11 years ago
Hey Vulnet. I think most cars of the group B had smaller rims.
The Audi Sport quattro S1 had 15 of 16 inch rims I think. But maybe somebody here knows more about it.
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
http://www.ig-audi-motorsport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=68 - Spects of a S1
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
http://www.groupbrally.com/index.shtml
Andre Hendrikz over 11 years ago
Are entries from outside the usa accepted?
Vulnet over 11 years ago
In the technical specifics for FIA Group B, they don't talk about rims dimension, the teams are free to use what they want.
Other hand, in group A, are permitted dimensions of 18 only for asphalt and 15/16 on dirt and snow.
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Andre,
Entries from around the world are welcome.
Nebojsa Djuric over 11 years ago
Hi guys. I have just uploaded my renderings but am unable to convert my model to .dae file. It would mean so much to me if somebody could help. I exported my model to a .3ds file and tried to drag it through sketchup to make a .dae but the import fails every time.
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
i have also problems with this .dae files and to reduce the verticals due to the design :-(
vijay singh over 11 years ago
hey guys you can take the help of internet you may search online converter for any file to *.dae .
Solidworks Practice over 11 years ago
You can use collada exporter
http://labs.solidworks.com/Products/Product.aspx?name=colladaexport
Marc Senger over 11 years ago
Thanks Starnuti. I tried the Solidworks exporter, installed the required PhysX utility, and had crashing issues like many others who used it. If anyone has luck with it, I'd like to know how you reached success. One alternative is importing to Sketchup and exporting a .dae, but Sketchup has difficulty importing 100 mb dxf & dwg files and freezes. To reduce the file size would compromise the design. To CyDesign: would providing an .iges be sufficient, since it has potential to be converted to .dae by someone on your team with the means to do so?
Miljenko Pretković over 11 years ago
Hi everyone! About CONVERTers...
Here's one freeware: MeshLab. .)
You can import: *.es, *.3ds, *.ply, *.stl, *.obj, *.qobj, *.off, *.ptx, *.wmi, *. bre, *.dae, *.ctm, *.v3d, *.pts, *.apts, *.xyz, *.gts, *.pdb, *.tri, *.asc, *.x3d, *.x3dv and *.wrl.
You can export: *.3ds, *.ply, *.stl, *.obj, *.off, *.wrl, *.dxf, *.dae, *.ctm, *.gts, *.json, *.m, *.u3d, *.idtf and *.x3d.
Import only clean mesh. If you import a mess (small holes in surfaces, etc.), it will go berzerk. Good luck!
Miljenko Pretković over 11 years ago
Do we need to model suspension parts or just body and wheels? Thank you.
Marc Senger over 11 years ago
Thank you so much Miljenko! This seems to be working better.
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Hello Miljenko,
We do not need to see (or have visible) the suspension parts. Just body and wheels/tires. Also, great job in finding MeshLab for everyone!
SS over 11 years ago
Hi dear Organizers!
Can You explain me what mean the "The 3D model must have the body and wheels as separate entities"?
Because I think we must deliver only one "*.dae" model (not common CAD assembly).
Many thnks
Samvel Sargsyan
Luis Cordoba over 11 years ago
:S I need more time :C
gene hacker over 11 years ago
How much do you care about models having correct fasteners like nuts, bolts, e-clips and the like?
JF Brandon over 11 years ago
If you need help with any rendering, take a look at our Engineer's Spotlight on James Coleman. Has some great recommendations for how to learn how to render! http://blog.grabcad.com/2012/10/engineers-spotlight-james-coleman/
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Samvel,
Other entries have been able to correctly create models with body and wheels as separate entities, but only have one .dae file.
You are correct, .dae is not used widely yet, but as CAD and other visualization technologies, particularly game engines, merge, it will be a more popular format moving forward.
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Gene,
Many of current entries, based upon the renderings of the models, have the right amount of realistic accuracy. We are not checking for exact locations of every faster or bolt, many entries do not have that level of detail and look very good in the provided renderings.
Jarek Turkosz over 11 years ago
How about some elongation of the deadline ? :) It's really tough "subject" to make it good without any shortcuts :)
SS over 11 years ago
Hi dear CYD!
Thank You for soon answering of my questions!
Also, can I use the simple curved sheet surface, instead to modeling whole profiles for aerodynamic surfaces (like the wing profile of rear spoilers)?
Best regards
Samvel Sargsyan
Mohsen Jafarimalek over 11 years ago
for those who tray to export they model from 3D Max or Maya: here on this page you can find something helpful and very easy. good luck everyone! ;)
http://www.antonmills.com/?p=288
Mohsen Jafarimalek over 11 years ago
I have one question: Is the vertices should precisely 150k??
My model have ~130K vertices, ~190k triangles, ~160k Polygons!
I'm little bit confusing! which one should I rely for competition limits?
tnx
Mohsen Jafarimalek over 11 years ago
finally I have upload my .DAE file. Is there any way for me to check my file? I don't know it could pass the competition limits or not?!
Vulnet over 11 years ago
Hi David,
The pivot of the model should be at the center of it, but for all axis or only for x-axis and y-axis? because my pivot is positioned at the center x and y with z-axis at the base of it.
Plam over 11 years ago
Could please you tell us the exact time we have left for submitting?
Jarek Turkosz over 11 years ago
ANd I will recall my question . . . How about some elongation of the deadline ? :) It's really tough "subject" to make it good without any shortcuts . . Does anybody agrees with me ? :)
Plam over 11 years ago
I also think that It would be absolutely great to see an extra day or two.
Negrievski Nenad over 11 years ago
I agree. An extra day or two would be fantastic.
Marek Rybacki over 11 years ago
I think it can be not fair for these who managed to finish on time.
Jarek Turkosz over 11 years ago
. . . Consider my friend that many of enginneres have regular job and in fact they can work only on weekends on "those" kind of projects. So the tim of 15-20 days melts very rapidly to only few days which is not much for creating a project .. especially a car! . .
arifin santoso over 11 years ago
yes...I need more time to design..
jura stok over 11 years ago
I have one suggestion for the Grabcad team. It would be nice that the final countdown, let's say 2 day, would be in hours.
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
the collada files and the limit in verticals is a huge problem for me.
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Mohsen Jafari Malek - your results look reasonable. ~150k vertices is a guideline to ensure the final entries are not too big.
teigan over 11 years ago
i'm half done with mine, but i'm discouraged to see many have entered what looks like existing cad models with fog lights, tail spoilers, etc. tacked on. i thought the goal was to simplify the surface geometry. i painstakingly surface modeled from scratch, eliminating hidden window sill facets and plugging the back of air intakes. i think i'll stop while i only have 12 hours wasted. the shortcut gang wins this time.
David Hinz over 11 years ago
GrabCAD community - Wow, so many designs are looking great!
Please make sure you include the appropriate .dae file (Collada) as part of your entry. As the judges have been looking across the entries, many of the designs with impressively rendered images were missing the requested Collada file. That is a must have.
Thomas Gilbert over 11 years ago
I have also entered a model and it strangely hasn't appeared as an entry - 'RS-X' Group B Rally Car
AFurac over 11 years ago
What is exactly dae file?; since i modeled car in rhino, there's no such extension available, although rhino has a large palette of exporting programs.
Wes Campbell over 11 years ago
I to have uploaded an entry but does not appear? Cy-7 B Spec Rally Car
Andrey Chernorot over 11 years ago
Can't see my entry as well ... CyDesign Cheran rally car concept
Jarek Turkosz over 11 years ago
I have the same problem . . :) .. I submited the car but its not on the entry list :/
Tomas over 11 years ago
A lot of good entries, very interesting who will win :)
Gabe Blanchet over 11 years ago
Entries submitted before the deadline should now all be visible. Please send me a private message if your entry is not on the list.
Goran Bundaleski over 11 years ago
A lot of great entries. Good luck to all. When is the results announcement?
Mohsen Jafarimalek over 11 years ago
It's my question too, When is the result announcement? please.
Tomas over 11 years ago
This is one of most impressive challenge in GrabCad! :)
Bogdan Tovstonog over 11 years ago
My model isn't on list. Please, do smth.
Bogdan Tovstonog over 11 years ago
R-car
David Hinz over 11 years ago
For those of you having difficulty loading your model, please contact GrabCAD support at http://grabcad.com/questions for any issues with loading models and files.
thanks,
David
DWP over 11 years ago
Finally got a Collada file, 114 MB, it's huge in my opinion and I have no idea why. I'll try to attach it tomorrow if I can archive it or split it to a decent number of files of a decent size. If anyone can tell, is it normal for Collada files to be that large ? What happens if I include in a car design all the internal details ?
jura stok over 11 years ago
This is a complaint to the Grabcad team.
I can understand that someone wants some exotic file format for their specific purpose, but for the "engineering" community you should set a standard.
Let it be step/igs. Afterword they can manipulate the original files as they wish.
Mohsen Jafarimalek over 11 years ago
EXCUSE ME! I think it's not fair! many of participants upload they .DAE files in contest duration! I think it's little bit unfair that someone could upload or edit their files after competition deadline?!
Marc Senger over 11 years ago
I respectfully disagree. I feel the entrants should conform to the requests of CyDesign, and not the other way around. CyDesign is, in essence, your customer. If they request a Collada file, it should be up to the entrant to find their delivery method (and the valuable support of this community helps, too). If not, there will be plenty of other challenges with your file format preferences in mind. Personally, this was a learning experience which opened my eyes to an unfamiliar file type. You never know when you might be called upon to be flexible.
Mohsen Jafarimalek over 11 years ago
@ David Hinz ; Dear David, when we can see the result?
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
congratulations to the winners and especially to marek rybacki for his perfect rally car
SS over 11 years ago
Hi dear jury and orginizers!
Is obviously that selection of winner and prizewinners of competition due of gross violation of the rules of competition, and diletantizm (not fully understanding of new conception idea) of jury!
Because 2nd and 3rd prize winners were not *. DAE (COLLADA) file until this morning, which noticed also jury (by rules it must be completed files at 29 Otctober)! Releases of that files today is strange, may it is some hide-and-seek games, or authors did not want to share their own files with others.
Do jury and competition organaziers have double standards?
Conglaturations winner.
But winner has copied the overall conception of design from “Hunday” and “Nissan-Infinity”, and use design items from other models.
Front highlight from “Subaru Impreaza” 2008, rear light from “Nissan 240 sx”, there is nothing from new conception of “B group” rally car! Only good licked and copied model!
This also applies to the other models, which mentioned jury as “Honorable mention” (light changed “Subaru Impreza 1996” by CyAnide, plastic toy of composed by “Lancia Stratos” and “DeTomaso Pantera” of Cy design group b rally car…..)
Is the jury having corresponding knowledge in design field?
Meanwhile is lot of projects, which noteworthy (Cydesign cheran rally car concept,
'rs-x' group b rally car, Hammerhead-group b rally-farcar, Btd s13 and other) and have fresh design solutions.
All these strange and bring bad reputation for GrabCAD, as not loyal competition organizers!
mohamad sadegh samakoush over 11 years ago
Mr Hinz are you sure can you understand what the meaning of :CREATIVITY of carbody design style?
Bogdan Tovstonog over 11 years ago
Firstly, I don't mean my design. I've found here many really perfect cars were made by participants. And none of them took prises! Anyway, the decision of jury is their personal opinion and we must respect it.
Tomas over 11 years ago
Congratulations all the winners!
Branko Stokuca over 11 years ago
Congrats to all the winners.
jura stok over 11 years ago
My 5 cents of wisdom.
I must agree with some previous comments.
My criticism goes in different directions, both to Grabcad crew and outside “Costumer”.
This suppose to be an engineering site, therefore basic file formats should be some interchangeable nurbs based files. Any Customer who wants some vertex based mesh can transform it according to their needs. It should/could be a piece of cake if they are pros. The same goes for textures and mapping.
The rules should be as exact as possible and as logical and sane as possible.
The Costumer (this or any other) should be very clear what’s the main goal or what are the real expectations. Is it an engineering, design or even stylistic task? Maybe is all of the above. If this is true, state the importance of them for your final judgment.
There are some really nice designs that are not included in the final selection (my input is excluded here). Maybe they don’t satisfy technical requirements, maybe they just don’t satisfy jury’s eyes. Who knows… By my standards there are 3 out of 6 in the final selection which would really fit in there. …and there are many out there.:) Group B? By what standard? What should a group B be in a year 2012? ….mid engined car, overdosed “aerodynamic” styling? …or something with some stylistic reminisce of the old days but with modern aerodynamics and modern underbody?
Let’s analyse the explanations of the verdicts:
1. prize:
“…providing a design that allowed flexibly for both front and mid/rear engine car concepts, good use of CyDesign graphic assets, looking like a car from today's show rooms, providing flexibility for multiple track type setups (tarmac, dirt, snow/rough fields) …”
a. Engine mounting flexibility: Indeed it could fit. But as a selection criteria it is complete BS!
b. Good use of CyDesign graphics: Nothing that shocks the eye.
c. Today’s showroom: YES, indeed!!! It’s Hyundai or something in this planned obsolescence league.
d. Track type setup flexibility?! Are you kidding everybody else and me?! It’s just a bump map (stupid)!
2. prize:
“also providing flexibility for both front and mid/rear engine solutions to be developed. Strong, aggressive design with good use of colors, aero work and unique enough to not be confused with any other design or car available today. Loads of detail.”
a. Engine mounting flexibility?! The same BS.
b. Aero work?! Draggggg and a lot of it! Drag is not always a downforce.
c. It is really unique and no one can confuse it with any other design.
d. There are really loads of details.
Other explanations does not deserve a comment.
It’s my guess that the whole enterprise is focused on a design to fit a car simulation or a game. Why are there so many pointless statements? A box can fly, a car can dive, a wing can ride. State it simply that you want a visually realistic model with no regards to its physical properties. Physical properties in a simulation are dependent on the numerical input of the possible variables.
I am very sorry for the harsh remarks to both the winner and the second one. They are not a criticism of your work and your prizes, they are remarks to the whole selection process.
Mohsen Jafarimalek over 11 years ago
I'm 100% agree with jura stok! we need answers!!
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
The problem is the "Group B", since there where nearly no rules for the Car makers that time. And by the way the example image is a "Group S" Toyota MR2 ;-)
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
... but a think that the winner is very close to a perfect korean production model based group B car with very nice design and all features of a real rally car.
AFurac over 11 years ago
Congratulations to winners. Ahm...., if I may comment the overall of the contest. I noticed that a lot of members here are complaining, so Mr. David Hinz( with respect ), I'm not sure how many designers here are professionals( which actually studied on some School of Arts, or have years of experience ), but it could be easier( in the future ) to set precise list of what is being judged on entries or perhaps set a sort of contract which participants need to fill before submission according tu rules, for some more important challenges, so that everyone would get on their own :)
arifin santoso over 11 years ago
@ante: are you professionals? If you are the jury, which one the best design of your choice as a winner?
AFurac over 11 years ago
Of course not, I'm sorry for missunderstanding. This was just a suggestion to jury. I'm quite new as I joined two weeks ago, primarily for this contest. Personally I'm second year student of architecture. Now I'm not sure if the new members can leave comments, can they ?
Romano Gaspari over 11 years ago
another newbie winner! in every challenge there is a newbie of the winners.. a fluke?
Romano Gaspari over 11 years ago
who vote to limit challenges to members who uploaded a number of projects enough? (renderings exluded, only 3D models of course)
Marek Rybacki over 11 years ago
Reading comments above, i find that I should feel sorry about the winning this challenge. Of course I'm newbie, but this challange attract me to join GrabCad community, and probably I will upload new models in the future.
Vulnet over 11 years ago
Jura , I'm agree with you
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
@ Marek Rybacki, you absolutely deserve to be the winner and you should not feel guilty for being a great artist, because your submitted car is really great. With kind regards, Teddy (a newbie and cad hobbist)
Romano Gaspari over 11 years ago
two winners on 3 are newbie to grabcad community... they could be anybody in relationship with jury, we don't know and never we'll can. @marek rybacki I'm not angy with you ( I didn't partecipate this competiotion) but in my opinion members have to submit a number of projects and activities on grabcad communnity to verify they are not joined community only for cash! take a look at past challenges; everytime you can find newbie winners who completely left community after received prize. is it good in your opinion? Have I to remember you that ALL projects can be downloaded by any members? GRABCAD must demostrate the honesty about its challenges. people who provides projects and models to download are members with a demostrated sense of sharing, sorry, not people who join, win and left. don't you think regulars members have some rights or not? I don't think GRABCAD can survive without these people. thank you
Bogdan Tovstonog over 11 years ago
I didn't to talk about it, but in the general stream. The winning Car #2 is the same car from "Group 500 contest". And it can not has engine on the front noway. Because the base is mid-engined. And it is very good to see it on the images from older contest.
Romano Gaspari over 11 years ago
however rules needed. more rules,, more details more irrefutable results, otherwise what kinda challenge are these? remember grabcad let the challenge requester only to choose the winner, if I remember. More serious challenge can attract more serious designers
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
sorry, but this discussion is getting insane :-(
Goran Bundaleski over 11 years ago
Guys, don't be such a bad losers. The customer payed for organisation of this competition and ONLY he has the right to choose the winners, or to be precise the ones who he likes the most. If our opinion was important we would be asked to vote. It is simple as that.
chris teddy manka over 11 years ago
"If only " the grabcad communitiy had votes by "likes" and "downloads" the winners would be Mike Enagah with 49+16 likes and Andrey Chermorot with 262 downloads ;-v
but like Goran Bundaleski said - david hinz is the jury and the one to like it or not - like you my know from tv shows like American Idol :-D
jura stok over 11 years ago
It could sound presumptious but nevertheless:
Grabcad team should make their own basic set of rules for the outside costumers. This could be:
Basic requirements: file formats should be …. (something universal like igs, step or even stl)
Basic requirements: ……
The Goal: ………..
Selection procedure:
1. For those who’d pass formal requirements public announcement should follow.
2. Selection between those who passed. For all the complaning participants possibility of public explanation but not reversal of the final selection should follow.
In the case of mass production it should be set as a standard to require a royalty for the winner.
Many times it seams like throwing diamonds to pigs. A ton of ideas for a little baksheesh thrown around. v
Kim Su over 11 years ago
We are a group who love design, people in distant lands, I very much do not understand some competition gentlemanly thing, unable to finish the race? Non unable beCongratulations winner? After all the hard work of the designers!
I know that my English is not very good. Sorry ~!
Jarek Turkosz over 11 years ago
Jura .. You have my full aprobation to your Ideas.
I think just the same. The rules must be as clear as possible and respectable by both the competition organizers and the competitors to avoid any doubts during the competition and winners selection process. A person who takes part in a competition must be 100% sure that when the subject is to design a Red small ball, no one who will design big green cube would win :)
ps .. I'm not commenting/complaining on the results of this competition anyway. Winners but also all of the participators deserve rspect for their hard work and results.
David Hinz over 11 years ago
Hello GrabCAD Community,
Apologize for the delayed response, was on work travel for last few weeks, with limited
connection time. Wanted to address some of the issues raised above.
- The Challenge Participants location, time in the community, GrabCAD score, etc. is not a consideration when reviewing entries. CyDesign Labs, Inc. has no connection to any of the GrabCAD community.
- I am not sure we can control of entries that were previously used in other contests/work; not sure that is at all possible or the point here.
- The collada (.dae) file format was a specific format needed for our environment. Yes, it is not a typical CAD format, but it was a must have. All winners had entires with working .dae files submitted. Not all entries had useful .dae files.
- As the Challenge Participants had questions on requirements and rules, I was actively covering those during the challenge, providing further details and info as best possible. Issues on file uploads were handled quickly by the GrabCAD team once they were highlighted to them.
- A few Challenge participants submitted private entries which were not reviewed for award of prizes.
- The timeline for the Challenge could not be changed due to needs here for using the winning entries here at CyDesign.
- Many current car designs produced by companies today rely on cues from prior designs or current themes. The current trend of how grills look started with one company (Audi, i think) and has proliferated across all major auto manufactures today, so seeing common design elements among many entries was not surprising.
- Having the ability for winning entries to be either front or mid/rear engine was a nice surprise that was not a requirement, but became important as we reviewed the submitted entries.
We appreciate the passion and commitment the community brings to the Challenges, thanks for participating! We will continue to work with the GrabCAD community moving forward and look forward to continuing to having productive efforts
Thanks,
David
Sara Sigel over 11 years ago
Thank you to all who participated, both new and longtime members of GrabCAD! And, congratulations to all winners!
@Jura I like your ideas of having a more easily digestible set of rules/requirements. I will take this input back to the development team. @Romano, I will reach out to you via private messages. We welcome all engineers who want to sharpen or test their skills with our Challenges and will continue to do so. For anyone else with questions, please send me a private message.
Like @David said, the best way to clear up any questions you have is in the Challenge comment stream. Keep working hard and submitting such amazing entries!
SS over 11 years ago
I don't told anything, since my first comment regarding to results.
There are very great propositions from Jura and Romano, also from others, but main issues is remain unsolved.
If all above discussed about rules and requirement will get green light on next challenges, who will be responsible for keeping rules by entries?
Who will disqualify that entries, who violating the rules of challenges?
Or who will be the guarantor of an objective choice of winners?
I think nobody.........
Because those problems, which raised and go to pieces of whole GrabCAD, shows inefficiency of GrabCAD to providing everything is above mentioned.
Because that, as proving my thoughts, dear Sara Sigel trying to nicely close all discussion, by her last comment as last comment of all comments, and delicate hinting of ending all comments by "send me personal mail")))))))))))))).
She doesn't proves me anything exact, and doesn't proposes anything resonable. Only common words, by which she also trying to hides dear jury inconsistence and weak arguments (David's last comment).
It's late dear Sara, professionals become informed about debility of GrabCAD, to manage and run serously design competition, and You already corrupt Your reputation (Internet magic enviroment for distributing of information)!!!!!
Sara Sigel over 11 years ago
If you would like to improve Challenges please give your feedback on this question: http://grabcad.com/questions/how-can-we-improve-challenges. I am also available via email and private messages. I want to make the experience better for you, so let me know what you would like to see. This Challenge has picked its winners. David and CyDesigns have the models they like the best and the GrabCAD community made them for them. They are very happy with the results and hope to do more Challenges with us. Help us make this next experience great.
Rob Podell over 11 years ago
Did anybody receive their prize money?
Tony Lin over 11 years ago
I had not received the winnings yet.
Marek Rybacki over 11 years ago
Neither did I :( but I received CyDdesign T-shirt today ;)
Marek Rybacki over 11 years ago
Just received money prize :)
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