What is icader.com? is it the chinese version of GrabCAD??
because many GrabCAD's Models are there :
http://www.icader.com/news/2013_915.html = Dodge Challenger
http://www.icader.com/news/2013_916.html = http://grabcad.com/library/dodge-charger-xrt-2013
http://www.icader.com/news/2013_1291.html = Aston Martin DBS Volante
http://www.icader.com/news/2013_1494.html = Nokia Lumia Pouch
http://www.icader.com/news/2013_275.html = Formula Mix
And more :
HUGE Theft :
What most bothers me :
1 - These Chinese sites take the most beautiful designs without prior permission.
2 - These Chinese sites put thier logo on our designs (even GrabCad doesn't do it).
3 - These Chinese sites do not mention the real owners of Designs.
4 - I think they are making money of our designs.
#2 and #3 bother me and we are working on #5 since they aren't making money that we can see.
..."Unless otherwise noted, this site articles are original or compile, please indicate: Posts from icader.com"...
This is the note under every single model isn't amazing ??? ;P
(Dear oh Dear...)
Personally I don't have any problem to see my models somewhere else as long as they are published by me for free... in a site like Grabcad
However, I would appreciate if they could quote my name on my models and they don't make money from my job that I PUBLISHED for FREE !!!
P.S. any of my models have been found there ...so still safe ;P
Looking that in a more positive way I agree with Hans above...
It's worth noting that we have stopped other sites in similar circumstances when they are crawling models to post on a site that gets ad revenue.
You are right honestly nothing to say it's just sad... but this is life isn't it? espesially on line... There is a good feeling about this site (GrabCad) and no one can steal that...
Shouldnt be surprised Chinese are masters at piracy. 85% of worlds piracy CHINA. Maybe I should hire some local hackers tell them to have some fun with the site. mhh maybe
Martin's idea is decent but takes some hassle to join the site as a member...but good idea.
Another is to write directly to the site's admin: firstname.lastname@example.org
I did write directly to the admin of the Chinese site with a link to my model on their site. I explained that I was the creator of the model and it was taken from GrabCAD and and posted without the agreed upon link and credit.
Here is what I received today:
"Thank you for reminding us of this. The model has been removed from the site."
Unfortunately the model is still there...my strong feeling is the person who is a member here and posting the models there is the admin of iCadder...so good luck...
SARA, it seems to me that the admins of this site ought to be in a better position to communicate with the ISP of that site with better results than any of us?
Isn't also fairly easy for BLAKE to track the ISP of a member here and match it to the icadder site and then take remedial action?
I am thinking that I may either make all models private or possibly no longer post models on this site. There is a bit of contradiction there as I joined this site to share knowing that there was a possibility, even a probability, of models showing up on some pirate site.
I am a bit conflicted about the whole matter.
We are in the process of contacting them directly about all models and definitely appreciate you taking the initiative to do so for your models. Thanks Ron! I hope you keep your models here, we'll work as hard as we can to keep you :)
It seems to be the chinese version of grabcad, but than with a lot of stolen models. Found a few of my models and renderings..."Funny" but strange because I never received a message or request from a chinese "engineer".
But lets be honnest...by stealing our models they admit we still have an advantage in technology and knowledge.
So we have to sharpen our pencils (and clean our mice) to keep ahead....
[deleted for content]
We are looking into this and will let you know when we have more information or have reached a resolution. Thanks for bringing it to our attention!
Thanks Alan, I will follow through with this.
Sara, Martin Spencer-Ford was kind enough to point out to me one of my models has appeared on icader at:
Perhaps they need to be bombarded with emails from GC and user community to stop, though I think it highly unlikely thye'll pay much attention...
Based on most comments, I wanted to get back to the group to tell them more about the site after a closer look. There seems to be confusion as to what it does, how these models are obtained, and how they're being used.
icader.com is manually pulling these models (to the best of our knowledge) as part of their feed, which functions a lot like Pinterest. The main difference here is that there doesn't seem to be a link back to the original work and other than a reference to "original author" no credit is given. You must earn credits through actions on the site for downloads.
Our team will work on the gray area that this provides around commercial use (we do not see it as personal use and will be looking into actions we can take on your behalf).
We recognize the copycat design of the GrabCAD design/site but that is not something we can prevent - i suppose it is the sincerest form of flattery. As far as your models are concerned we will do everything we can to keep sharing on social sites and other venues on the up and up. That means linking to the original, giving credit to the author and not using models for commercial use.
You can count on us to follow-up and keep you informed here. I do ask that GrabCADrs not post any comments here that mention any kind of discrimination or threats to others. In the meantime, feel free to post links back to your work on icader with a mention that you do not give permission for this use. Also, you can note in your model description that you do not allow reposting on icader.com. This is only a temporary fix and we will work on a more permanent one. Email or post here with questions or comments.
Also, I appreciate the support and kind words you're giving one another. It always inspires us to see the Community come together to solve a problem (with us backing you up, of course.)
The site asks for credits to be able to download from their stock, my lamborghini was originally requesting 4 credits to download it, it has subsequently changed to free after I posted to iCader KK informing them that they are not the owner and that i was
Here is a copy of my post to KK (whoever they are) - Some of the models do provide a Name of who the modeller is, but there is no link back to grabcad. On a political note, I know a lot of Chinese people can not get access to pages that have not been approved by their regime, which is sad as they miss out on such great sites as GrabCAD, but there is no excuse for not crediting the original designer/artist. I openly encourage you all to do like wise and to link back here, if their provider don't allow them past their own magnificent wall then that's not a problem, because at least they get to know you are actively following your own work and that they are missing out on original master pieces and have only access to copies with no contact to the original artist for advice or support on how to achieve the result!
I am the original modeller of this model and it was done in MoI and not rhino, and you should have acknowledged my work and given me credit Whoever you are, you should respect the time and effort that others put into theses things, share it for free by all means, but at least say thanks to the artist by giving them credit where due. If you want to download the original it\'s here http://grabcad.com/library/lamborghini-reventon-2008 where it clearly states you should give me credit 我原来的这个模型的建模，它是在内政部和犀牛，你应该已经承认了我的工作和我的信用，不管你是谁，你应该尊重的时间和精力投入论文的事情，别人分享通过各种手段，但至少说，感谢艺术家给他们由于信贷。如果你想下载原始它在这里http://grabcad.com/library/lamborghini-reventon-2008的，它明确指出，你应该给我的信用
All the best guys, and thanks to GrabCAD for looking into this and special thanks to Sara for keeping us informed
Copy of the email sent to email@example.com ...
Dear sirs, I refer your attention to http://www.icader.com/news/2013_452.html uploaded and distributed by your user known as KK http://www.icader.com/author/kk/ as you can see the URL gives the impression that KK is the author of this model - he is not and was notified via the comments page that he was free to distribute this material as long as he provided recognition of who and where it came from. In this case the file and the work is mine ... relevant evidence provided herewith
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=5101.1 is where the model was under progress
http://grabcad.com/library/lamborghini-reventon-2008 here is where i share the completed model for FREE!!
Your user KK was not offering the model for free as it was intended, (although after being notified of his infringement he or you did make it free) and has not acknowledged my intellectual or artistic copyrights and as such is in contravention of my terms stipulated on the GrabCAD page. He has subsequently blocked me from seeing the comments posted by others and has made no effort to explain why this is so.
As such i now have no alternative but order the removal of my works from your computers, failing to do so may result in your domain name and IP addresses being logged with blacklisted libraries world wide which will not only effect the traffic of your website but could also effect your ability to use e-mail where your emails may pass through servers that support blacklisted domains .
Wishing you all the best
Seems to have done the trick - error 404 recieved
@ Barberian et al:
Copyright/Patent system is backwards. Millions of people use electric motors, alternative current, generators and alternators, Diesel Engines. Neither Rudolf Diesel not Nikolai Tesla were rewarded adequately for their contributions to humanity (they died poor). On the other hand some punk screeches into a microphone and calls it a copyrighted song, and people get fined or go to jail for sharing his non-essential contributions to the society. In the US, a utility patent has a life of 17 years and you have to pay the Patent Office to keep it current (some amount every so man years), else it gets auctioned off. Copyright has a life of 75 years, hence we can now listen to Beethoven or play his music without worries. Hey Mick Jagger is getting up there, soon we should be able to share his music too (sarcasm).
This is a serious issue, if not resulved, people will stop uploading their high quality hard work to GrabCAD. This means loss of quality members, credibillity and recognition for GrabCAD. Unfortunately as Barberian has pointed out, the Patent/Copyright system is inefficient, expensive and out-dated. Fixing such system is beyond us, or GrabCAD management. We must be careful about implementation of our solution else it may end up back-firing.
We get upset when some sites copy our work and make money with it, now think of this: Our members post their work based on Catia, Solidworks, Autodesk, Solid Edge, Inventor, Keyshot and so on. With the exception of those who use legal copies, or academic lisences, what perscent of out contributors are using illegal software copies to make their designs? At typical price range of US$4000 to $15000 per license/seat, only a small portion of the contributors from the thirld World countries can affor the programs. Imagine if the folks at Dassult Systems (SolidWorks & Catia) inquire about the legality of these contributions to GrabCAD, many of us will be in trouble. Once Dassult does it others will jump in as well.
I am not siding with the Chinese, but the Kalashnikov design transfere was not illegal. Between the late 1940's and early 1960's Russia and China were close allies, and the Soviets openly shared their defense technology with the Chinese, Kalashnikov as well as MiG 15, 17, 19 and 21, many transport aircraft as well. I think the Russians helped them build assembly facilities in China.
@Aaron well here people are not looking to profit from stealing other peoples content this is a free sharing site with other engineers and designers. Which is very useful for experienced people and students as well. Grabcad is a great thing for technical information inspiration and ideas and learning and understanding. People should learn to respect other peoples work No 1 engineers or designer here will dare steal another model and pass it along as his. To me personally that would be embarrassing and I would loose credibility as a designer and never think of doing such a thing. Not to mention I would be ashamed and colleges would laugh at me but not everyone feels that way.
The Chinese need to learn how to respect intellectual property of other people. This is nothing when to compared to the piracy that is going on in china. They are ripping of BMW Benz Toyota Rolls Royce Rolex Apple you name if its famous and its a product the chinese are manufacturing and selling. From products cars clothes you name it. What is the rest of the world gullible idiots? These people need to learn how to respect other peoples work and creativity just like the rest and comply with international copyright laws. I am sure most of the designers here would be happy to share in other forums for free all one has to do is ask for permission. Bad enough they are killing the market and undercutting everyone by producing everything dirt cheap and everything that is made is china is basically worth nothing but at least dont steal from people. Its not their fault Its the firms and manufacturers in Europe and US and Russia who out source everything to china and screw over the manufacturers in their own country. The chinese will realize it eventually you can not build economy and industry and infrastructure on ripping off other people and producing cheap crappy products and selling them for profit. Your entire economy is directly dependent on foreign design firms, when the firms stop ordering you will be left like a fish without water.
I have been chatting about this with a fellow member for the last few days, and find it appalling…I doubt very much that any one of the members in the list below was contacted about this, I know I was not and I have 3+ models and renders on this site, and I certainly did not give permission for my renders to be used to promote the models or to be used to as a headline image to increase sales or public awareness of 3D Printing…
This is for me a clear case of Copyright infringement or a violation of my rights as the creator…the image has been Use in whole or part without permission and been adapted…
Not happy at all, and I will not be Sharing my models or renders for foreseeable future I also request that my renders/images be removed from this site.
Can this also include renders and screen grabs of the models as i have one of my renders being used as a headline image to increase sales or public awareness of 3D Printing…
SteveR I saw that you did not have success with them. I have contacted the company and they have agreed to take down any reported models and I will work with them on something preventative. I will take all these links you posted and have them removed ASAP.
If you see anymore, just send them to iCADer with me cc'd.
Hi Steve, that's a bit drastic mate killing all your work off this site, you can delete all your models and renders yourself, but I for one would be very sad to see them go. You have done the right thing as far as i know, you gave credit and provided YOUR renders only when using other models than your own, and you have shared the models you created with an OPEN platform where you retain the copyright for any of your entries other than those that have been added to competitions where we have to give up those rights but are offered prizes in return. If your model does not win then the rights are still yours and may not be harvested by GrabCAD or any of their associates for future use without compensating in some way such as prizes.
Now as GC is an open forum that publicly shares our work worldwide so potential employers can see our skills which we provide - don't be mistaken, our work and efforts are not for free - we pay electric bills, broadband subscriptions and software licensing fees, plus our time and commitment, GC does not take advantage and nor should anybody else, the sad thing is that the spirit of GC and the works of fellow modellers here has been abused but sadly it's of no surprise and as stated above WE as members know that any Tom, Dick and Harriet can grab and learn from our efforts free of charge and that also includes those that have morals nor respect for our time and efforts.
Realistically speaking I would message the imposter and notify the whole thread that you are the owner of the said piece and link it back to GC where it belongs also notifying the user openly and publicly that they are ripping you off by not acknowledging you as the original creator. I don't think there is anything else you can do.
As a work around you could restrict your models by using the workbench offered here on GC, where only people you trust would have access to them, or you can use zip and rar files that require a password, sadly both of which are hackable over time. The final solution is more along the lines of Anarchy and would not solve the issue - The bottom line here is that we are all responsible for what we share, if it's that important to you personally not to have it your offerings openly spread around and not be given acknowledgement then password it or sell it because sadly there is always going to be some greedy fooker somewhere that will try and take your due credit and that applies the world-over and not just the Chinese.
I for one will be notifying and possibly publicly shaming the thief involved ...
All the best guys, don't let this be putting you off
Martin Spencer Ford
We like the GC spirit too :) And we definitely don't take all the value GrabCADrs provide for granted. All the best to you, Martin!
And to you and the GC team Sara - Thanks for the comment and for looking iunto things, sadly though i don't think there is much you or we can do to prevent this other than GC openning up a Chinese division (in this case) even if only 1% visit that would be one heck of a backbone required for the traffic, and let's face it, it would get very expensive real quick if that's the answer to fix the problem for every website that might like to test their lucand take without asking ... One day at a time - lol!k
And here's another idea for all those who do not wish their material to be shared by third parties other than their chosen ones ...
Hi - My name is "your name here" and I am the original creator of the model and or renderings you have chosen to download from this site. I must express my concerns that you are downloading MY materials from a source that I have not approved or provided my work(s) to. You can find the original version of my work here "provide a link to your model/rendering here."
Downloading from this site requires that you have to have credits in order to complete your download, don't waste your time on such scams - you can download my work and the work of many other designers and engineers like myself for free from http://grabcad.com/home. It's free to join, free to download and free to express your opinions on what you like or dislike about the models you can download
I look forwarding to meeting you there on GrabCAD where you can ask me any questions you like regarding this work. All the best ....
"Your name or signature here"
...... Now translate the language to what is required and paste below like this ....
嗨 - 我的名字是“你的名字”我的原创者模型和效果图，您已经选择从这个网站下载。您正在下载我的，我还没有批准或提供我的工作（）从源材料，我必须表达我的关注。你可以找到我的工作在这里的原始版本“在这里提供一个链接到你的模型/渲染。
从这个网站下载，要求你必须有学分才能完成下载，不要浪费你的时间，此类诈骗 - 你可以下载我的工作和其他许多像我这样的设计师和工程师从http://grabcad免费。 COM /家庭。免费加盟，免费下载，并自由地表达你的意见，你喜欢什么或不喜欢的车型，你可以下载
Ok thanks for the feedback Ron on my comment - If you or any other GrabCAD members would like me to post on their behalf whilst i am a member on iCader i will happily do so - Send me a private message with the iCadder link and i will post and link it back here to your models GrabCad page ... Wonder how long it will take for them to block my account - lol
its useless mate they are not going to take them down if they do they will put them back up
Well check my lambo for me - It now says it's free here where as before i posted it cost 4 credits - I also get the chance to redirect the downloader back to here and back to the the original artist
@Sara - You're welcome, it's the least I can do to help try and keep these guys posting here
@RonB ... your model has indeed been removed ...
HTTP404 error - file does not exist, returns home after 10 seconds.
You want to view the page may have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
Error message: HTTP404 Error - This file does not exist [ Back to Home
☉ Please try the following: If you have typed the page address in the address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly.
· Open http://www.icader.com/ home, then look for links to the information you are interested in point.
· Click the Back link to try another link, to apologize for the inconvenience.
☉ site if you have any questions, comments, suggestions, advice, please contact the administrator firstname.lastname@example.org
My Friends that bothers me also pull and remove your models ,
Because the GRABCAD community need all engineers and dates of input models confirms that you are the owners.
And should not affect us this chinese sites ,
Because the GrabCad admin and staf will fix this problem.
Do not worry my friends.
We must focus in our challenges and keep up to make more great models.
Update! I contacted iCADer and got a very cooperative email from them. They will remove any models we send them. So, if you haven't had success yet then send me the URL to your model on iCADer and I will send a batch of links to remove at the end of the day today, EDT.
Thanks again for the great teamwork with this! I will add to the email that it needs to be removed from every page it appears based on @Martin's feedback.
Well done gal - gorra love the GC Team, give all those involved a hearty thanks from me too ... ;¬)
Absolutely, very well done indeed Sara and the GC team, is a great result!
Good points Barbarian...
Or simply do not up load anything here that you really care about...
Looks more like this is going to have to be the route. GrabCAD will likely become like most other CG forum sites, pictures of the work but no models.
Yeap - That's what I said early in the discussion, if you don't mind loosing it, share it, otherwise hide it away until you know what you will do with your prized posession
A new one Here..."
Answered with a tutorial: https://grabcad.com/tutorials/what-is-icader-com
Sourbh thanks .. This is indeed a violation. I am not happy with all this,
Thanks Miss sara for your Kind.
And also Dear Victor you're Welcome.
Now we are all in one team and having one goal, so Let give a big Slap to Thieves Site's
@Sourbh I'll reach out to their admin and start the process of removing GrabCAD models.
@Sara May this be the most wise move... ever!
@Steve I can understand that you are upset...
(I am as well as any of my model appears in that site ;P Don't take it too serious)
However, I just want to tell that, by deleting your models is like deleting the roots of them and of course your originality!!!!
Be brave mate you're doing good job...
You need to show that these models or anybodyelse's models are exist and that they have an ID....
For me it is all about reliability and this site I personaly believe that it has some...
Of course action needs to be taken from the GC team...But in the end of the day you are the Designer and you can defend yourself... I bet my on you...
Good idea, Martin! Tomorrow I'll ask both my Solidworks and Catia providers to such a watermark. I'll tell you.
@Kamyar: I agree with you about GrabCADr who posts models that have been stolen from around the web, showing them as a their creation. I ever asked what about the crowd of STLs posted here. As I was a Rapid Prototyping Engineer in the recent past, I know that STL are "closed" meshes, that means the STL are a bit modifiable only by specialized softwares (e.g. Magics RP). I don't know anything about manipulation by other softwares like 3DSMax, Cinema4D etc. However, it should be correct to give a name to original owner of the file. In the past, here on GC, I found a project of mine (not a simple render) posted by a mate. I just ignored him. Bye
Email the admin I send them email and they took down my model surprisingly they did take it down.
Well from what I have seen on iCader they are stealing unbranded renders, so i guess a simple solution to this would be that we all do the same as iCader and stuff the GrabCAD logo onto our renders, it's a ball ache i know, but it may well deter them stealing the work if they need to render them, especially considering that most of our posts do not contain the textures and materials used. It's by no means fool proof but if it slows em down enough they will harvest from elsewhere. There are other things that could be done by GC but they would involve a serious amount of scripting and administrator prowess to achieve, and of coarse the option of adding the "enter these two words to download" is a real blocker if its a scripted bot they are using to grab our models
I’ve done what I can, a few more that have now been passed on too Sara, ones I recognize and other I have checked, but there are many many more…
Yes Sara that would be your most effective approach go for the users that are uploading to the site.
unfortunately it looks as though they have absolutely no intention of removing any of the images/renders and models,
My guess is they have not, as once all GC images/renders amd models are removed there will know longer be any point for “iCader” as the site is 90% made from GC content….
I know we beat this subject to death, and still no clear resolution. I put myself in the shoes of the "harvester" who steals peoples work and presents them in his website, such as kk. I also spent some time in his website, mind you my Mandarin is a bit rusty;)
My findings are:
1- The harvester is looking for brand names, BMW, Apple, F18, Ferrari or anything that is shiny and famous.
2- The harvester doesn't care for YOUR original work, if you upload a car of your own design, chances are it will be ignored and you are safe.
3- The harvester doesn't care much for useful stuff, i.e., if you upload the sorting machine that you and your company worked 9 months developing it, it will also be ignored. Task-specific equipment are not usually brand name and shiny.
Conclusion: Never upload anything you can't withstand loosing. Only the obvious (F-18s and Ferrari's) and the obsolete can be safely uploaded.
@Barbarian Great words...you hit it right on the spot.
i'm guessing that the iCader.com situation is now a lost cause?...seeing as i am not even getting a response from Sara, it's a very disappointing result for me personally....and i hope that GC will do there utmost to sort out and prevent this from happening to other peoples work and renders in the future....
I'm sorry I let you down. I was hoping for an amicable resolution of the issue and will continue to fight for you guys!
This is something that should be brought to the eyes of the iCadder team...preferably by the admin here. Just to remind them that our countries are working together in some areas of the copyright cyber world.
I agree with all engineers comments, no one likes there work taken over by someone else claiming it's theirs.
The only solution I can see is only to put up renders and use Workbench for your files if you what to post them at all. This would allow you to give access only to people you trust, how save is workbench??
As fellow engineers have pointed out workbench costs money, perhaps grabcad should reduce this to zero to help solve the problem after all it;s our models that make this site what it is. Whats the answer Sara?
what grabcad open branches in China by the name www.3dmox.com web ...?
1. if grabcad make Chinese version, it is not fair .. why only chinese version? no other country versions ..?
2. if grabcad not make a chinese version, I think it makes the web less creative.
3. not all models in sync with www.grabcad.com, there are some models do not even exist.
model in http://www.modxz.com/, I noticed that not upload engineer who made the model, but someone else.
I think grabcad have to move fast, I just imagine the model in grabcad in 1 hour can be downloaded from 10-30 depending on the model of large files,
Victor, this isn't GrabCAD. Our legal team will deal with this one. Sorry for the confusion!
GrabCAD are loosing a lot of good models to China at the moment. Those models are being taken from us, with no mentioning of who modelled them or from where they came from and in a lot of cases the taker is claiming it as theirs. GrabCAD have only three possible ways to stop this. Advertising campaign in China to promote the main GrabCAD service. New Mirrored domain to be hosted in China keeping models in sync will be a ball ache but it is achievable. The final option is drastic and is purely the last option which is to block all IP address ranges of the ISP's where their uses are abusing GrabCADs and ours intellectual properties
Grab-cad is only one version and this is it"https://grabcad.com", No one Chinese Ever Launhced in my Notice.
Victor Its Just a Tricky Site which Thieves were operating for their own profits.
Please Don't Focus on it, I believe that Grab-cad Community Should and Must Take a big step against this type of threat. and Be sure for Future threat's
Well i am looking around and on this iCader and the impression I just got from Shorty's recent street chopper bike, that iCader are going to do a tutorial from it - That would most definitely taking be p!ss if that is indeed what they will do ... On a side note to GrabCAD, check out the Download icon, does that not look familiar to you .. My suggestion is that you block their subnet at your firewall dudes! Or is your logo and icons copyleft too ?
Thanks Martin! Very much appreciate your input/feedback…
I would also like to add, that it looks to me that you need “Credits” to download the models? Does this mean that the individuals have to buy “Credits” to download the models, if so then this site would be a commercial one not non- commercial site, as it could possible be generating a revenue or cash flow off the back of models and Designs acquired by dubious means…?
Shakes head disappointedly
Hi Steve, I agree with Martin and hope you keep your models on GrabCAD as we work this out. We love you here! Also, the credits are based on points, not money. I'll post this comment on the main thread, as well to make sure everyone is informed.
You can't buy the credits, you get credits for posts and sharing and from those who like the posts you have given, they also take credits away for offensive content - lol - Good job we're not members as such then heheheheeheehe
Hi Steve, I went to download my model and it asked for 4 credits at first and i also posted on the page ... since posting the message that it was my material it now says it is free ... So i suspect you are right about it being credits based
I was told about such a bitter reality by Tom Fred, which I would publicly thank.
My Dodge XRT 2013 stays published there on ICAder, under a "lucky" Sebastian account, which is getting honour and points by his follower. When I uploade that model on GC, in respect of terms and conditions, I highlighted that the model came from D. Herzberg. Now, who has stolen that model, doesn't care about hours and nights spent to come to an end of the project.
Now I'm going to put free thoughts as posts flow to my eyes.
@Eddwin Rodriguez (3 days ago) I think that a password, privately given by the uploader to the generic downloader, could reveal who is the stealer. Isn't it?
A password given privately would not solve the problem, unless of course you only had one request, then it would reveal the culprit, however random passwords on archives would not work either, once the user has downloaded and then unpacked the archive, all they have to do is post it up raw or re-compress to a new archive and post it up again elsewhere.
What could work, and is possibly already available in expensive tools like CATIA AutoDesk etc is that there may well be a part of the CAD file that could indeed embed a copyright notice similar to the watermark used in jpegs ... Ask your software provider if this is so, it might not be hack proof, but it would certainly slow all but the most ardent of the naughty copiers, if it's too much effort for a freebie, then they will not bother ... hopefully
It shouldn't do - it should be transparent to anybody else, as in they shouldn't even notice it's there, however it does open the door to other possibilities like DRM functionality such as only one copy to be held on the computer, the ability to prevent others from embedding your work and claiming it as their own, or locking that part of the assembly so it could not be changed by a third party but adds into the header that it contains elements from a 3rd party allowing complete traceability through the products life-cycle on the design table etc
Do you think this would stop other community members from being able to use a model in their personal projects?
Let's not ignore the fact that there some people in GrabCAD who steal models from those sites and post them here as their own creations....
No software or complex legal guidelines can change this situation. Maye we should start putting huge ugly watermarks in the middle of (not the corners) our renderings and stop posting the solid files. This is sad.
I agree that this would be sad and not in the spirit of sharing. I hope this isn't something you decide to do. What could change your mind?
Good one Martin!!
I am going to use your letter as a guide.
I had not thought of the world wide blacklist...great!
Yeah i have done the same just used Martin's as a template, added a few of my own comments, one being that failing to remove my models and renders may result in a claim for compensation for unauthorized use of original work, which i'm more than entitled to do.
E-mail sent still awaiting a response
I had to back it up with another e-mail to have the link removed from KK's page too as it was using one of my renders with their logo on it - bloody cheek
I am so glad you are getting your models removed! I will let you know about the response from iCader.com to us.
Well if i was the admin there it would be easy - just send us a list of all those that have requested the removal of their models and images and leave the rest to me ... Feel free to add more or provide others on a regular basis if needs be. I would humbly apologise and explain that although all posts are checked for content, we have no way of monitoring where the up-loader obtained the materials being posted etc etc creep creep grovel grovel :)
Unfortunately I have been unsuccessful in get them to remove my models and renders from the site…This is a clear case of Copyright infringement a violation of my rights as the exclusive copyright holder …the image and models have been Used in whole or part without permission and been adapted…unless the GC team can resolve this issue it is much to my disappointment that I will know long be contributing anything to the site.
Just because we have all added our models and render to GC dose not mean it’s in the public domain.
This is completely incorrect. Nothing is in the public domain unless the copyright owner explicitly puts it there. Just because the copyright owner places an image or model on the internet, it does not automatically become “free for all to use how ever they see fit” know single country, person or website is exempt from copyright law, permission still needs to be obtained from the copyright holder. To post or use the images and models else where on the internet.
Cool - same response i would have given you too :)
I will also add that not all CrabCAD members know about this and since Sara states a deadline by today. Anyone recognizing another member's work on the iCadder site please include that model in your list to Sara. As there is not enough time to contact the builder and then have them contact Sara.
Hi Sara i don't think just send them to iCADer with you cc'd. is going to work mainly due to the amount of models and renders taken, i was just checking to see if i had missed any of mine, At just one of the sites users "KK" he or she has 510 posts and at least 280/300 of them are models and renders taken from GC... i'm 90% sure of this
Yes, I agree. I'm thinking going after user account rather than models is going to be the most effective next step.
I agree with Martin...Ahmed Abdelsalam messaged me and had the same idea.
He and I agreed we would incorporate the CrabCAD sig in some way on the model it self or somewhere that would be difficult to cover. I will also add my own logo and mark.
At the very least people should ad their water markers to the renders that way they cant steal your renders as well
By defacing, I mean putting watermarks in our renderings, part of the problem is solved. What are we going to do about those who steal the CAD files and mass produce our work without our knowledge? It happened to me in 1994.
Sadly on an open share site like GrabCAD there really is very little you can do without either making it a subscribed or restricted bandwidth. If you use NURBS then because of their accuracy, you can embed a super small logo or copyright notice into the model so if they try to convert the model to something like OBJ then either the exporter will fail or the importer will crash - I have not mastered this yet but I am working on it
These are issues that we as engineers and artists need more insight with rather than urban legends and hearsay. We really need a lawyer's point of view on copyrights. Although it is commonly believed we hold the copyright to any render automatically just as a photographer owns any picture they take. How we can enforce that is another story especially under international law.
I am reluctant to "deface" my renders if there was another way. If the person downloading and posting would simply follow the agreement and add the link back to GrabCAD and credit to the creator I would welcome the extra exposure. But stealing is stealing and I will do what I have to to make that as difficult as possible.
http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/ukcs/docs/edupack.pdf is the UK's current legal standing on copyright, you should find it's pretty much the same all over the world with only small changes such as wordings.
I took some law classes which were part of my program. Now when an artist engineer a person builds designers creates something in the eyes of the law international law those materials by law are rightfully his. The work is automatically copyrighted by the creator. If it will be a mass produced product he needs to file patent so others cant steal. As for personal projects they classify as intellectual property which forbid local or international people from ripping off that individual claiming it as their own or making profit over it. As long as lawsuits go on international level unless you are big corporation with millions of dollars to spare forget it there is nothing that can be done. BMW and other large corporation have been unsuccessful to prevent the chinese from ripping them off. The Chinese dont care and the government there doesnt care about copyright either thats why they do what they do and get away with it. Since the 1960s entire economy and industry of China was build buy taking other people materials and trying to replicate it cheap and sell it for profit.
The Ak47 Kalashnikov was created by Mikhail Kalashnikov in the late 1940s. By law the design and manufacturing of the ak47s all rights are held by kalashnikov. The chinese are the worlds largest manufactures of the ak47s and they have made and make unparalleled profits off it and the kalashnikov guy doesnt see a cent!
Its not only the Chinese who steal other peoples materials almost everybody does. Recently was in the news of Apple stealing copyrighted materials from Samsung causing ban on some apple devices. If another individual like you steals your content and claims it as his own and makes money you can sue him and most likely you can win. If a large corporation rips off your design and you sue most likely you cant afford. it is sad but law only protects the guy with the big bucks. I remember one case of the guy who invented the windshield wiper system. he went to general motors and showed them his idea I forgot the year 1950-1960s they just kicked him out and started to rip off his design. So did other manufacturers. So he sued everyone Some cases he won others he did not + lets not forget the blood sucking parasites known as lawyers. :haa I had a teacher who used to work for large Engineering firm in US. What he said was that the Company would pay small fee and get all expired patents filed by everyone individuals and corporations then they would manufacture products based on a particular expired patent and they would get away with it. Sad reality.
On daily basis designers and inventors show ideas to corporations the company steals their ideas and gets away with it because the guy cant even afford to file the lawsuit you need at least few hundred thousands in court fees to sue a large corporation. Not even mentioning lawyers but of course lawyers want a nice slice of the pie when you win and if you dont win they want to get payed for their time.
What I would suggest people do is instead of uploading here they should upload on nitrobits or some other free file hoisting sites rapidshare and just whenever someone wants a 3d file give them link to download and then change the file name in the hosting site so that particular link is no longer valid. Or Grab cad can create a Code based download system to authorize downloads.
Has everyone forgotten one big point here? Grabcad offers NO copyright protection, nor does any other car site. If you choose to upload your files here or anywhere else, you knew it was going to be open to the world for anyone who wants it. You can't complain about this if you choose to partake in Grabcad......an open source cad forum.
No we haven't forgotten
I disagree and your comment completely incorrect. Nothing is in the public domain unless the copyright owner explicitly puts it there. Just because the copyright owner places an image or model on the internet, it does not automatically become “free for all to use how ever they see fit” know single country, person or website is exempt from copyright law, permission still needs to be obtained from the copyright holder. To post or use the images and models else where on the internet.
Exactly when it is that icader.com are going to start removing the images and models from there site, as far as I can see they have made no attempt to do so?
I agree with SteveR...we own what we create no matter where it's posted. As an example, 5 years ago a pro photographer friend got $25K from a luxury hotel chain for using a 1.5" x 1.5" image of his they downloaded from the internet and put on a travel brochure CD cover.
Luckily an agency he had worked for spotted it.
As I said before I am conflicted about this as I want to share but do not want others to profit from my work. I would gladly let them post my work if they simply followed the agreement we all made when joining GrabCAD.
I will state one thing further but doubt anything will come of it. The IT person here at GrabCAD can easily find the culprit through ISP tracking. And that person should be banned.
I Agree Verislav, workbench should be free, our models after all are GRABCAD and there would be no Grabcad without them.
for promotion and profit unilateral
What the hell is 3dmox.com?
All of the files are from grabcad, even the number of downloads are the same, but it's NOT grabcad, you can find your files there "only" if they have 330 downloads. But EVERYTHING is stolen there.
Even the descriptions are the same, just translated with google translate.
Oblivion copter VS
It's okay if the staff can't do anything about 1-1 steal, but they stole EVERYTHING.
I have just found my Tissot Watch on there -
It already has 220 Downloads! Can i get these converted to GrabCad Points please! Haha
Here is a translation of the text:
British designer Alex Cotterill designed with Solidworks2011 mechanical male watch Tissot Tissot couturier 3D models , full-time network www.zhuanzhi.net There SLDPRT / SLDASM dimensional source file format Download the complete assembly drawings, as well as IGS / STEP / STL / bip Source Files download. Model is good, can turn into a better version of the low point, as I installed SOLIDWORKS2010, many models can only kankan! This is too domineering! Can begin to imitate! We own the Tissot!
Looks like the market will be flooded with fakes soon, At least i will know which serial number to look out for.
On a serious note - I implore the community:
A - DO NOT DELETE MODELS
B - USE UP TO DATE SOFTWARE
C - YOUR PORTFOLIO IS NOT BEING DAMAGED
Chinese copies and the culture that surrounds it will always be there, by deleting your models, you will only damage your own portfolio.
I agree the 'Turbosquid' chinese equivalent is painful if there are people making profit this is awful, and by all means get your models removed from these sites, but deleting the source will only make it harder to prove that you were the original author!
By using up to date software, you will be one step ahead, as the chinese manufacturers use archaic software. (Still using Solidworks 2010 or earlier!)
Continue to enjoy GRABCAD in the same manner as before, don't let them ruin your experience, be humbled because 'Imitation is the ultimate form of flattery'!
My idea would be a filtering. there are users at other sites that uploads the files from here. I think that the grabcad workers could check that who is that account that downloaded all those models that the person stole to another site. I think most of the time there will be just 1 result, and that account has to be banned from here.